And here I thought we could go without romanticizing one more white male villain smh
I would argue there is a difference between acknowledging that a character is a fantastic, multifaceted villain and romanticizing them.
Pierce is cold. He is calculating. He knows how to manipulate people into doing what he wants. He’s not afraid to use pawns and sacrifice them accordingly. God, he is an awful person. A terrible one. He’s an abuser and unapologetic and willing to take out millions of people for his vision, however fucked up that vision is, of the greater good.
Recognizing that he is one of the most terrifying villains that marvel has rolled out with does not equal romanticizing him. He’s the kind of evil that creeps up without you noticing and by the time you do it’s too late. He’s smiling as he stabs you in the back. Pierce is important because he’s the bad guy who can actually exist in the world today. There aren’t people building giant robots, there aren’t Norse gods or nazis peeling their faces off. What there are in this world are politicians in positions of power who abuse that power and nothing is more dangerous than that.
Those tags are great because if you go against Pierce in a battle of wits you WILL NOT WIN. Plain and simple. Literally the only way to stop him was pure force.
TLDR - pierce is a despicable human being but recognizing why and how he is an excellent villain for this day and age does not equal romanticizing him.
I actually just used the wrong word, I meant glorifying not romanticizing
I’d still argue though that he’s not being glorified? Everything within the post is canon.
I think everything you need to know about Pierce is in the line “the man turned down a Nobel Peace Prize.” He had literally everyone so fooled that not even NICK FURY suspected him until far too late. I’m not trying to put Pierce on a pedestal or anything like that, but he was winning at a game that no one else even knew they were playing.
Like I hate Pierce. I HATE him. Like I said, he is an abuser and a terrorist and a terrible person. But Talking about his effectiveness as a villain in context of a movie still doesn’t equal glorifying him.
For a villain to be effective, they must be the hero of their own story.
THAT’s what makes a good villain. THAT’s what makes a villain terrifying. THAT’s what makes Pierce terrifying. Because Pierce is the best villain Marvel has given us because he is real. He’s in congress; he’s leading our troops; he’s in the Senate; he’s sitting in the UN; he’s at the head of a multi-billion dollar corporation and he’s drafting laws and hey, did we forget that we already have a project insight? Because what’s the difference between the helicarriers and drones?
What makes CA: TWS such an amazing piece of storytelling is that it is absolutely a sociopolitical thriller disguised as a superhero movie. And if Pierce wasn’t the cold, smart, dispassionate, well-spoken, insidious bastard that he is, he wouldn’t be nowhere as effective. Even after Steve gives his passionate speech at the Triskelion, even when the World Security Council turns against him, Pierce still thinks he can win by spinning things his way. He absolutely believes he’s doing this for the greater good. No villain worth his screen time ever looks at the things they do and thinks ‘ah yes I am such a terrible person, doing these evil, awful and morally wrong things.’ Every single villain must absolutely think they are absolutely in the right, and the hero is their villain. Or they become stereotypes and caricatures.
Discussing the type of villain Pierce is has nothing to do with glorifying him or romanticizing him. It has everything to do with recognizing the Russos’ clever, brilliant writing, which shows us that real, true evil doesn’t need to have a red skull or an army of chitauri. Real evil exists, we are steeped in it, and we don’t even fucking know it until it’s too late.
also, don’t think for ONE INSTANT that casting Robert motherfucking Redford — All-American roguish Good (white, blond, CLONE OF CAPTAIN AMERICA) Guy Robert Redford — wasn’t possibly the most deliberate casting choice made in this movie. Robert Redford is a Good Guy, and you know it. How do you know? Why, just look at him! Look at his blond good looks! Look at his nice suit! Look how perfectly uber-American and…and…and he just LOOKS like he should be in charge, um, because he’s so. White. And Perfect. And. Rich. And uber-American and…we let those kinds of people get anything they want…oh.
whoops.
Reblogging for commentary.
Alexander Pierce really is the absolute best villain Marvel’s done to date, and could well be the best they’ll every do, because of this. He’s utterly terrifying, and hits far too close to home.
All of this — I love Alexander Pierce, in the sense that I fear and loathe him: He is the real deal; he is the kind of person you do find in glass-and-steel high-rises, in backrooms of clubs with panels of dark wood, in all the exclusive places where powerful people gather. Because these people, these people are still mostly older white men with the “right” kind of origin story and, yes, looks. Not to mention the whole meta commentary of casting Robert freakin’ Redford: this idea of, beyond the sheer acting, of what he can evoke in others. Someone else commented that had Captain America been made almost fifty years ago, this would have been Steve Rogers.
The thing that works about him, really, is that he’s like the villains we have in real life America. Slick and wealthy and powerful and white.
Making Robert Redford the villain was possibly the most terrifying casting choice because he is usually Mister Hero, or at least not a bad guy. And You can’t really go into this movie without knowing at least a little who he is (or like me both on & off screen) and that plays into your expectations of his character. And then his villainous aspects just hit that much harder, and you realize that (to quote above) it is absolutely a sociopolitical thriller disguised as a superhero movie.
I think Pierce is terrible, he is clearly irredeemable, and I think his ending was the only way to take him out of play. I love how he was portrayed, but not him.
god im just thinking about how much going to public school in the MCU would’ve made me hate captain america. every time i got caught giving some bitch the finger or writing on bathroom walls or ditching class or stealing books from the library cause i got a fine or what have you, and then they gave me lunch detention or ISS and i sat in that dumbass eraser-smelling room and im in My Chair (the chair i always sit in and yell at anyone else who tries to take it), fuming, arms crossed, full of teen angst and hating everyone around me, and AGAIN had to watch this stupid fucking video ive already seen so many times that i know it by heart and every word grates on my eardrums and i’d just see this fuckin familiar face
and i would be ready to LOSE MY SHIT
Villain Origin Story
god imagine Steve giving Peter his Captain America is Disappointed in You face/lecture over something dumb and Peter just fucking dissociating and zoning back in to “Peter! Are you even listening to me???” and looking him in the eye and being like “I’m completely immune at this point. You can’t even touch me.” and walking the fuck away
canon.
the real reason why Peter agreed to fight cap at the airport
I also firmly believe that not a single teen in the MCU would take Captain America seriously. I’m positive he’d be a total meme, and anytime some sort of disaster is happening, all the kids would just laugh, like “good luck.”
The News: Captain America may be our only hope.
High school kids, snorting: What’s he going to do, tell the villain he’s disappointed in them and to make better choices?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Gen-X Supervillian confronting cap after years of PSAs: Oh no, it’s the star-spangled saint coming to tell me to make better choices. Whatcha gonna do, Cap, help an old lady cross the street at me?
Captain America, AKA Steve Rogers the pissed-off-Brooklynite who spent his youth getting into alley fights: The fuck are you talking about? Eat fist, dipshit.
Cap leans into it after four villains in a row get thrown for a loop by him insulting their mothers and swearing a blue streak during battles so he plays up the oh-shucks thing during interviews. That works great until the news catches him on camera saying “It was propaganda, you nazi fuckwit” while decking a superpowered alt-right millennial who came to attack a BLM march.
“It Was Propaganda, You Nazi Fuckwit” becomes the next meme. There are photo edits, there are tee shirts.
I feel like fandom generations are both very specific and easily conflated. Like,, you either live through so many they blur together into one hellish mess or you join in on one generation and remain blissfully unaware of the previous ones
Trekkster Gods
No internet
fledgeling fandom
women run everything
seriously where the fuck did we go wrong
fandom wouldn’t exist as we know it without these women
conventions, badges, quite a lot of taboo but also lots of fun
closely-knit communities
mostly discussions in magazines
hogging the phone so you can chat with your friends
(while trying to pretend the rest of your family doesn’t exist)
basement meetings
fanart what??
Dawn of Networking
tin-bucket sites and forums
the badly assembled DIY IKEA kits of the internet
these were strange places
i’m too young to know firsthand but I’ve heard the stories
they were like,, inhabited by eldrich beings
who would sell souls in exchange for fanfics
early RPs
nobody was quite sure what they were doing
but!! You could connect with more fans quickly!!!
made obsessing less lonely
yay
“I was there Gandalf”
Live Journal
small internet communities
the name “Ann Rice” strikes fear into your heart
also hatred, lots of hatred
adding every warning and rating under the sun, hiding behind NSFW filters even if it isn’t necessary, praying you don’t get reported or deleted
you get reported
your friends get reported
nobody is safe
fuck.
Citrus Cheesecake
DeviantArt and ff.net
bright shiny eyes
children everywhere
“more of a lime than a lemon >//< but also kind of just a lemon with fluff?”
where did all the adults go? Where were they hiding??
pls don’t flame
A/N *dances away from your flames because idgaf*
omggg such a nosebleed!!!! XD lol
characters and authors having conversations in the author’s notes
Archive of Our Saviours
ooo we found the adults
mass migration by younger fans to Tumblr, Ao3 etc
looking at fandom’s earlier stages like “I have no memory of this place”
ratings that had nothing to do with fruit
(thank gods)
fandom grows up
we are all grateful
we have proper websites to call home
wanderers can finally settle down
many fans are Tired
We’re here again, Gandalf
your elbows are explicit
cats are explicit
there are legends of a paradise of pillows
but none of us wants to leave hell
blue blue blue
a well-respected petblr is flagged as explicit
will we be here in January?
who will survive?
those with sense watch the chaos from Ao3, sipping mocktails
